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Dec. 13, 2022

Erin Davis: Joy To The World

Erin Davis makes us think of Christmas. Not only because she was a long time morning host at CHFI, Canada’s biggest holiday music station. Not just because played the Fairy Godmother in one of Ross Petty’s Christmas pantomimes. Not because she’s an accomplished vocalist, a philanthropist, and a podcaster who reads bedtime stories while visions of sugarplums dance in our heads. These are all good reasons, but Erin embodies the festive season because she celebrates family, joy and resilience in her daily life. Nor is she a goody two-shoes. No, wait. She’s good, and she has two shoes (that Mo once had to fill), but she loves to laugh, so come and join us to hear about Erin’s next chapter.

Erin Davis is an award-winning broadcaster, podcaster and best-selling author. She was the longtime host of 98.1 CHFI’s Morning Show until her retirement in 2016. Following the tragic death of her only daughter Lauren at the age of 24, Erin wrote the bestselling auto memoir Mourning Has Broken: Love, Loss and Reclaiming Joy (HarperCollins, 2019). She and her husband Rob now live on Vancouver Island, where they have family.

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Speaker 1 00:00:02
The women of Ill repute with your hosts. Wendy Mensley and Maureen Holloway.

Speaker 2 00:00:07
Wendy, this is going to be a particularly interesting episode, I think.

Speaker 3 00:00:11
I thought we loved all our children equally.

Speaker 2 00:00:13
We do, we do. But this one is quite personal. They all are, but this one is very personal to me. So, as you know, I hosted the morning show on CHFI in Toronto up until up until last, dear.

Speaker 3 00:00:25
Yeah, no, I sure remember that. That was your job.

Speaker 2 00:00:29
That was my job. Now I have a job e with you. But I replaced or I attempted to fill the seat that was occupied by legendary broadcaster Aaron Davis.

Speaker 3 00:00:38
Yeah, I remember. She was on all the billboards. I feel like I know her, even though I'm not sure I've ever met her. It was pretty big shoes to fill.

Speaker 2 00:00:46
Yeah, nobody ever pointed that out to me. No one once said to me, those are big shoes. And Aaron and I actually crossed paths before that. My first radio gig and this kind of brings us all together. My first radio gig, as you know, is at CKFM with host Don Daniard, as was yours. Your first radio gig, don was in the seat and you were doing traffic as well. And then Don left for Ch Five and they teamed him up with Aaron, who I believe came from CKO. So she had a news background and they went on to dominate the ratings for years.

Speaker 3 00:01:18
And then, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think dawn retired. Aaron. Then she carried the show until for some strange reason I don't get this, but weird things happen.

Speaker 1 00:01:29
They let her go.

Speaker 2 00:01:30
That was the biggest well, one of two huge mistakes that CHFI made. There were more, but that's definitely one of two. So yeah, that's what happened. And she went to a station called Easy Rock and they teamed her up there. She was filling in for someone who was on maternity leave and they teamed her up with Mike Cooper and they became legendary.

Speaker 3 00:01:49
Yeah, I think that's what I remember the most, because CHFI, they hired her back. She went back to CHFI and Mike Cooper went with her.

Speaker 2 00:01:58
That's right. And again, huge, legendary. And then Mike retired. This is what happens when you work with older men. Mike retired and then Aaron was teamed up with a guy who is not important to this story.

Speaker 3 00:02:10
Okay, well, I can guess who that is, but then it's time to move on. That there was this horrible thing that happened. Aaron's only daughter died. Her 25 year old daughter Lauren died suddenly in her sleep.

Speaker 2 00:02:24

Speaker 3 00:02:25
Same age as our kids now I can't even imagine.

Speaker 2 00:02:29
I know you can't begin to fathom. So Aaron ultimately retired and she moved out west with her husband, Rob.

Speaker 1 00:02:35

Speaker 3 00:02:36
And then you were hired to replace her or to fill those big shoes.

Speaker 2 00:02:40
Or to try yeah. At CHFI, along with a guy who's not important to the story. And it only worked because Aaron was and I'm not diminishing my own ability, but she was so supportive of me and she had such a tight relationship with the listeners that if she hadn't spoken out and been supportive, I don't think it would have worked out. And, you know, for that, if nothing else, I'm eternally grateful to her.

Speaker 3 00:03:05
It's kind of a big deal, particularly when she was going through the loss of her daughter and then leaving Toronto, partly because of the daughter, partly because of who knows? But anyway, she ended up writing this book, morning Has Broken. Morning with a you about life and grief.

Speaker 2 00:03:22
Yeah. And she's doing all sorts of things. She's got a podcast, I think two, one of the works, and she's a huge fan of this one. And as a result, I'm very pleased and very grateful and happy to welcome Aaron Davis. Erin, you may not be a woman of ill repute yet, but we've got half an hour to make that different.

Speaker 3 00:03:49
Hi, Erin.

Speaker 1 00:03:50
I am up for the challenge. Lovely to meet you, Wendy. Hello again, Mo. Thank you.

Speaker 3 00:03:56
Yeah, it's funny, I do feel I know you. I don't think we've ever met. I see you. Our audience can't see you, but I see you. I feel I feel like I know you. And I guess that's just being on radio for all those years, I guess.

Speaker 1 00:04:09
And welcoming you into our living rooms all of those years as well. Wendy and media is an interesting thing. People think they know us and if we're really lucky, they really do know us. That's always been my mantra, kind of like an open book.

Speaker 2 00:04:22
Well, you know, I'm going to step in. I'm going to jump in right now and tell you that, Aaron, I got to know you a little bit better over the last few years. I interviewed you when your book came out and we've spent some time together and we've been in touch. And I have to say it that I find you far more edgy and hilarious. And there was a disconnect, and now I think that may be diminishing. Correct me if you feel differently, but I think that you have always been a very virtuous and good person, but you got an edge to your sister.

Speaker 1 00:04:55
Oh, I do. There's this character that Cooper used to talk about, Evil Erin, and he loved when Evil Erin came out. But you know what my biggest thing was always that email or phone call or even back in the day letter that said, I am so disappointed in you. Those shame words, those Brene Brown words, I'm so disappointed in you, until I got to the point where it's like, you don't get to be disappointed in me. That's for my family. So that was always kind of on my shoulder. And the other part was, I remember being at an event and a salvation army officer came up to me and he said, I listen in the car every morning. I'm taking my daughter to school. We just love your show. He was the one I was doing the show for. And so I always tried to keep it to that level where if it was going to be dirty, if we were going to talk about Viagra or whatever people were talking about that day, which isn't dirty, of course. But you don't want a question from an eight year old in the morning when you haven't had your first coffee yet. About Viagra, as we did with Lauren. And we just said, oh, honey, it's a happy pill.

Speaker 3 00:06:01
I find this so interesting because Maureen is and maybe it's a morning thing, or maybe just a happier, more supportive, grateful, positive outlook. People end up on morning shows. But as a journalist, I don't know. I was always looking for the scorpion and the bottom of the bottle, and I think that ends up sort of not ruining your life, but it would be so much better to be happy. But, Maureen, you're suggesting that there's more to it, that people are more complicated.

Speaker 2 00:06:27

Speaker 1 00:06:28
Okay. Wow.

Speaker 2 00:06:29
We're right into it. Yeah, Aaron's absolutely right. In particular, I went from Q 107 to CHFI, and the audience is very different. And, yeah, there are children in the car going to work. And we were constantly, or I was constantly being reminded of by our poor program director. You can't say porn on C H five. We say adult film, like that kind of thing. Right. So I definitely had to watch myself. But in this day and age, I'm going to argue that every eight year old has access to a very dark world at the tip of just at their fingertips. And I think we're kidding ourselves if we think that they can live a life as innocent as you'd like them to. Like, I don't think there's anything wrong with talking about Viagra. Not that I would. I'll tell you something about Viagra. My GP told me that demand for Viagra has gone way down because it's just too much pressure on men and they'd rather go antiquing anyway.

Speaker 3 00:07:24
So is this what you want Aaron to talk about? Is this what she.

Speaker 1 00:07:30
No, I'm just.

Speaker 2 00:07:31
Jumping in on that. But, yeah, I don't think we need to be as good as we think we have to be.

Speaker 1 00:07:38
I understand that. I do get that. And you know what? I knew that there were other people who could fill those other niches. So if I had this sort of a bit of a what do they call it, virtue signaling, I guess, to my persona. I was okay with that. I don't know why, but it was a nice place to be, to be looked at for being a good person. And I don't know, I didn't wear it all the time. God knows that as soon as I left and went to the cottage on Fridays. It was just like game on with the gray goose. So I was drinking away so many stresses and all of that badness that I had been pushing down all week, particularly when it came to working with people who aren't important to this podcast.

Speaker 3 00:08:26
We're never going to say his name, right? Okay, excellent.

Speaker 1 00:08:30
I can do that.

Speaker 3 00:08:34
Well, tell us stories like Aaron. Tell us stories about I don't know, either the evil guys of people we're never going to mention. Or even better, like, secrets about Maurice.

Speaker 2 00:08:43
Aaron, who doesn't have any secrets on me, I don't think. I don't think I have any secrets, no.

Speaker 1 00:08:49
All I know is, when I met her, it was there was a fundraiser, by the way, Daniard, that you mentioned, he just turned 88. October 19, he turned to 88. He's out here in DC.

Speaker 3 00:08:59
So I wasn't like you guys. I was just like a traffic reporter with him, and I thought he was funny and really nice. Please don't tell me he's an ashlee.

Speaker 2 00:09:08
I got to say, I've worked with so many morning men because I did a feature across the country, so I've worked with just about all of them, and most of them are amazing. They're legendary people and there's a reason. Hugely talented, great communicators. But the job brings with it a demand for a huge ego. And unless you're a very mature person or unless you're very grounded, it's going to make you a little bit of an asshole.

Speaker 1 00:09:36
That's where Cooper was different, right? Cooper didn't care when he came over from Easy Rock with me, and that was at my insistence. They wanted to put me with someone younger. Listen to the part earlier where Maureen talked about them retiring, dying, et cetera, et cetera. I said, no, it's got to be Cooper. And he's a good 910 years older than I am. It's got to be Cooper because we had such chemistry. But when we came, I said, you know, it's going to be Aaron and Mike, right? Because the previous co host, who I had after Danaard, who was, it turns out, a place filler, and it's unfortunate because Bob McGee was a good man, but they didn't have trust in me. He didn't have trust in me. And so we floundered when Cooper said, yeah, I'll go with you. I don't care if it's Aaron and friends, let's just do this. And where do you find that with someone in this business, with that sort of a history and talent and voice? You just don't deeply funny, too.

Speaker 2 00:10:26
Like a really funny guy.

Speaker 1 00:10:28
That's why I got to be so clean, is because it was the yin and yang. He would go all the way dirty. And that's what surprised him about Yumo, is like, he would just sit there with his eyes gaping, going, you're not going there. You're not going to say that. And yet you did.

Speaker 2 00:10:43
I worked with Mike for four months when the guy again, who we shouldn't mention disappeared. Yeah, vaporized. And so they brought Mike back. So we've been square dancing our way through our careers. And I guess the bottom line is we've had some really good partners and some really terrible ones as well. But no different for you than you.

Speaker 3 00:11:02
Wendy, why were you so supportive of Maureen? Is that because she was a woman or you're? Because you're a nice person or initially.

Speaker 1 00:11:10
I was wary of her, of course, as we all are in this competitive soup of broadcasting. But I learned a couple of things. One was something Oprah said way back when. There's bounty enough for all, everybody there's enough listeners for everybody to have a great show and good numbers and feed their families, so there's bounty enough for all. But then when she came in the studio and you'll remember this, mo, it was you, me and the guy who won't be named, and you and I hit it off because I finally had somebody to spark off of. And our producer, God love them, Ian McArthur, said I could listen to this show all day. And it was true. It was so true.

Speaker 2 00:11:50
It was so true. I loved that morning. And I was just thinking, wait a second, I'm marrying the wrong person.

Speaker 1 00:11:59
That's right. I may be in the wrong lane. And my mom's name was Maureen, so it was such a great fit.

Speaker 2 00:12:06
Yeah. And your dad's name was Don, which is kind of wild, eh?

Speaker 1 00:12:10
Yes. Don Davis. Don Daniard. It's crazy. So, yeah, we kind of toasted Dana's birthday and said, thank you for giving me my career and me having my career in spite of you, because he made it very difficult when he didn't want me there. He was a John Wayne who wanted like he wanted to be the Lone Ranger and have a tanto and Tanto never got to run the show or to get the last laugh or any of that stuff. And he resented me being a completely different generation when that was truly the beauty of the show. He was talking about more the Andrew Sisters and I was talking about the Spice Girls and in there, people could relate, but he came to resent it and being there and going through a whole bunch of alimony payments and stuff. So it was awful for a while, but great on the air. So that's when you go, okay, if I stand up and say something, I'll be replaced because I am the easily replaced one in this situation. So put up, shut up, drink up.

Speaker 3 00:13:11
And wait, you mentioned Gray Goose. I mean, is it too early to go there?

Speaker 2 00:13:15
Maureen, wait for me to have one.

Speaker 1 00:13:17
Oh, I was thinking, what time is it?

Speaker 3 00:13:21
Yeah, no, you go. But, Aaron, you stop drinking. Oh, my goodness. I can't even imagine.

Speaker 1 00:13:29
Well, if you say I'm never going to have chocolate for the rest of my life. You'll never sign on that dotted line, but if you say, I'm not going to have chocolate today, then you can do it. I was sober for over ten years and it even covered me through Lauren's death. I didn't start drinking again until honestly, we were on the plane the week after I'd made the announcement I was leaving, and the flight attendant gave me a bloody Caesar with vodka instead of the virgin Caesar I'd asked for. And I went, oh, well, let's just see if I've got that off switch. And I didn't. I drank on that trip like it was my job. And it was a week Trump had been elected to. I made my announcement, I was leaving CHFI the morning the election results came in. And I remember saying to the Big Rogers PR machine, are you sure we should do this the morning of the election? And they were like, yeah, no problem, because everybody knew Hillary was going to win. So I was mad about that. I wasn't mad about him taking my spotlight, I was mad about Trump, and I still am. So there was that. There was the leaving the job, there was the not having to get up at the crack of stupid anymore, not having to be on or be good or not look like I was 20 years older, which is what booze did to me. So I just dove right back in. And then three years ago, I decided, no, this is killing me. And I would have that voice that would wake me up at three in the morning saying, what the hell are you doing? So I checked myself. I went to sort of a daycamp for drinkers and they said, no, you've got to get to the bottom of why you're drinking, because I had already stopped by then and they said, no, you can stop. We just need to know what's going to make you start again. So I went to rehab for six weeks, shared a room and everything, and heard all kinds of stories of people who'd been brought back to life from Fentanyl and every story you can imagine, and it was really something.

Speaker 3 00:15:18
Yeah, I wonder about addictive personalities, because I was the same with cigarettes. I had to quit three times before it's finally clicked. And now I know that if I have my vodka and tonic, if there's vodka in there, all I need is one. One cigarette and I'm gone. I'm like a pack and a half a day for the rest of my life. If I could be a party smoker, like I'm sure, Aaron, if you could be a party drinker, it would be very different than, well, that's what we.

Speaker 2 00:15:41
All hope for, right? To be able to turn the switch off, right?

Speaker 1 00:15:46
That's normal. Normal drinkers don't count their drinks or sort of say, okay, I'm going to wait till Friday and then I'm going to drink, all the vodka, all the wine, normal drinkers, don't do that. I learned so much. But you guys still talk about having the smoking Jones, and here I am with nicorette gum. Here's a funny story. I go into rehab and I'm so nervous. It's like grade nine, first day, 1000 times over, because they're all the cool kids. But this is the place, I think the only place on Vancouver Island that has a smoking area on the whole island. No, of all the rehabs. So it has this smoking area that was like in our high school called the Quadrangle, where people would go out and have their cigarettes and go in. But I saw the people there and I thought, well, I'm going to start smoking again. And so I did. I went to the little Tuck shop, bought myself some cigarettes and started smoking. Got good at it. And so when I left, about halfway through, actually, I decided to try the jewel vapors that they also had in the gift shop. So I was vaping for two years after rehab. It's like, switch one out, bring one in. And then, of course, COVID hit. And I thought, no way am I going to die of some lung disease because I was vaping.

Speaker 2 00:16:58
So I quit that.

Speaker 1 00:16:59
My fingers are keeping busy the same way by doing these three podcasts, producing, editing, doing the sleep stories, putting in music, making memes every night little mini movies. This is my creativity now, is producing things for people to scroll past.

Speaker 2 00:17:15
I find it hilarious that you're doing it's hugely in demand. Everybody does it. Harry Styles does it. But telling stories to put people to sleep, which is so counterintuitive to what we've been trained to do.

Speaker 3 00:17:28
And it's not the news. Not to make fun of my former.

Speaker 2 00:17:34
Job, but yeah, I wish the news could put us to sleep.

Speaker 1 00:17:42
The women of ill repute.

Speaker 2 00:17:45
Aaron, tell Wendy, because I know about this. This sort of amazing addendum to the tragedy of the loss of Lauren.

Speaker 1 00:17:55
Yeah, there is another book in there and it would be called The Morning After. But my publisher says, no. Once you've written a memoir, people look at your name and they go, oh, I've already read that. Which is bad news for Jan Ardern and all her bestsellers.

Speaker 3 00:18:07
But anyway, she's doing all right.

Speaker 1 00:18:10
She really is. She's my hero. So we moved out here and the book kind of ended with, spoiler alert when we die. And we meet up with Lauren and she says, well, mom, how did you spend your life after I left? The key to my life from here on in is having the right answer. And I think quitting drinking was part of that. Staying busy, but also doing everything we can to make sure that the little boy she left behind, the seven month old baby who has grown into a beautiful eight year old, and his dad and his mom now and his sister, that they all have a good life too. And that means helping them in ways of moral support and being there for them when we can. So they all packed up during COVID and moved from Bar Haven, Ontario, to about a six minute drive from our house. So here we have these beautiful grandkids, eight and three, and we get time with them. They come over here, they've each got their own designated bedroom. One has a tent in it and all kinds of fun stuff. And our guest suite has been turned into a playroom with a TV in it. And the whole we set up from when we were parents, it's just we've got joy back in our lives, but we had to open our hearts and our arms to the idea of Colin's dad finding someone and remarrying and then building this new life. And we really did because we knew it would be best for Colin, best for Phil, best for everybody, and including best for us. So it's really worked out as well as it possibly can.

Speaker 2 00:19:42
It's amazing. And you've become close to your daughter in law, I guess that's what you would call her, your son in law's wife.

Speaker 1 00:19:50
Yeah, we call them son in law, daughter in law. That's what we call them.

Speaker 2 00:19:54

Speaker 1 00:19:54
We have become close and there's a lot of getting to know each other because these two people who are Collin's parents, we really didn't well, one we didn't know at all, the other one we only knew a little bit from the occasional visit to Ottawa. We just knew that Lauren loved him and wanted to marry him and have a baby with him right away. And so we had to trust that there was a lot there and we had to find out who it was. And we have. And it's been a beautiful and challenging and enriching experience, really rewarding.

Speaker 3 00:20:29
I found it really interesting that somewhere, something that I read about, you said that the really important thing is to share is to talk about things, and I don't think everybody can or expects that. And that was certainly something. Maureen and I both went through breast cancer and when our, you know, our youngest, her youngest, my only was was six. So it was a few years ago, obviously. And and a lot of people were, don't tell anyone, keep it a secret. And I thought, no, I'm not that's that's not the way that I live and I don't want to live in a house full of secrets. And so our kids knew and the public knew. And I think you talking about what happened to you helped you. It seemed like the natural thing because that's part of your message now is not just reclaim joy, but it's also like, share your pain because lots of people have pain and it's good to talk about it.

Speaker 1 00:21:17
It is so true. Wendy. There is no way we could have recovered the way that we have had it not been for the support, the kindness of strangers who wrapped their arms around us, like I imagine a church community or an extended family would do. We had so much love from the radio station outward, and it was an incredible thing. And there's this saying that I know and it's been translated into so many languages, I'm probably botching it in English, but joy shared is multiplied. Pain shared is divided. And if you talk to somebody, it's not like the six degrees of separation. It'll be two, that there is someone else out there who has lost a child or someone else who's going through some traumatic, complicated grief and just needs to know that they are not alone. Because you do feel so alone in your grief. Wendy you and Mo finding each other in such short succession after the passing of your mothers, and being able to say, you know what? This is what I'm going through. Me, too. And feeling a closeness between you because you're no longer alone, and, oh, it's life changing. It really is.

Speaker 2 00:22:22
Aaron do you ever get the feeling you walked away too soon?

Speaker 1 00:22:26
Sometimes. Mo for a little while, I thought, oh, what have I done? I've got so much more to do. And I still feel that. I mean, I feel young. I have never felt healthier, but I'm not needed anymore. That's the thing I offered. When the new Chi Morning show came in, I offered one of their new bosses. I said, if anybody needs me to just talk with them about who the Chi audience is, I will tell them. I think in retrospect, that was a lot of hubris, but it was also like, I know the keys. I know who these people are. You can win them. And then I realized you don't want those people. These are the 60 pluses you don't want them. You are throwing the seniors out with the bathwater and you want to bring in the younger, hipper audience, which is what happened when I was canned in in three, you know, it was a hip replacement, if you will, and it was an unmitigated disaster. And I certainly wish the new show so much, so much more. But I feel like I do have more to do. And these three podcasts, soon to be before, I don't know, are they filling a hole or is it my addictive personality where it's just got to be go, go, go, do do, do do? I don't know. I don't know.

Speaker 3 00:23:35
That's kind of me and Maureen maureen calls it a joby, sort of. It's become more of a job than a hobby.

Speaker 2 00:23:43
We'd love it to be a job that, you know, that has remuneration.

Speaker 1 00:23:47
Well, this is what I don't get. And I was talking to somebody yesterday who who says, selling my my new show with Lisa Brandt, who's a former broadcaster, selling that new podcast should be a piece of cake. And I said, well, then get selling this one with Wendy and Mo, because there's no way, no way. This isn't saleable.

Speaker 2 00:24:04
Oh, it is not necessarily to go that route, because we are in the middle of this. We haven't tried this is our first time.

Speaker 1 00:24:11
We're not salespeople. We're not salespeople.

Speaker 2 00:24:14
We're not salespeople. We're not editors. We're not producers. We're not chase producers. What we are is we're writers and we're talkers. That's what we can do.

Speaker 3 00:24:24
That's why we're on a podcast. Well, and you just turned 60. Oh, my God. Welcome to the club.

Speaker 2 00:24:34
Just aging supermodels.

Speaker 1 00:24:36
Oh, you're the eye candy. Come on, both of you.

Speaker 2 00:24:42
Happy birthday, Aaron.

Speaker 1 00:24:44
Thank you. I can't believe I'm saying it out loud, because we were in an industry where aging was just like no, I was so afraid of aging. Being canned at 40 the first time, and then all you can do is just keep up with whatever it is you want in order to feel the way that you want and look the way that you want, and then just keep going. Who is it who wrote to me that at 60, she really found her strength? I think it was somebody that on one of your podcasts I'm mixing up who's talking with me and who's talking to me now?

Speaker 3 00:25:16
Maybe Mary Walsh. I was terrified to talk to her because I thought she's this big, tough, strong, and she is, but she's also kind of mushy and warm, and it was about being 60 and realizing, hey, I'm alive, and I might love my family after all.

Speaker 2 00:25:32
Marilyn Dennis. It's always with Aaron and Marilyn and Aaron and Marilyn and I sort of like in a horse race. I was just like a distant third.

Speaker 1 00:25:42
No, but it's true.

Speaker 2 00:25:43
But you know what? She still does. She's 64. She's at the top of her game. They paired her with a younger guy. Finally, somebody had the wisdom to do that, and she's going gangbusters.

Speaker 1 00:25:54
With me. It was Marilyn and Aaron. Marilyn and Aaron. I always aspired to her. And do they have chemistry? Is she happy? I guess we won't know. I mean, her marriage is yeah, well, yeah.

Speaker 3 00:26:07
You fall in love again if you.

Speaker 1 00:26:09
Haven'T heard that episode. You've got to go back and listen to it. Marilyn bears all, really, she does. And it's great.

Speaker 2 00:26:15
I don't think I honestly, and I would say this to her face, I just don't know what she'll do when she gives this up, because she's got the TV show and the top rated radio show, and she's had it for years. And it's going to be a major adjustment, even more so than it was for all of us for her to walk to walk away. But you know what? I know it'll be her choice. She's got that going for her. Do you?

Speaker 1 00:26:37
Oh, I don't know.

Speaker 2 00:26:38
After Lisa Flam? I don't know. But I. Think bell would be crazy to shoot themselves in their other foot at this point.

Speaker 1 00:26:46
And broadcasters never do that, do they? They don't shoot themselves in the feet. You're right, Maureen. You're absolutely right. I do wish Marilyn the honor of stepping away when she wants to step away and enjoy her wonderful, new, fresh, smell marriage. That's so wonderful.

Speaker 2 00:27:04
Yeah. And her granddaughter, whom she spends a lot of time with. So there's that.

Speaker 3 00:27:09
Well, it is nice to have to have other things. You've got your grandkids and your husband and your in laws. It's kind of lovely to have another. But I don't know what happens when you don't, because a lot of people don't. It is that mix of you want time for your family, you want time for friends, but you want to keep your brain alive. And so it's trying to like, I always loved my job and I loved reading that you grew up listening to Barbara From As It Happens because she was my idol my whole life. I wanted to be Barbara From. Did I ever tell her that? No. Did she die before I ever got a chance to meet her? Other than on TV, where we'd be talking about the Constitution or something equally as exciting. But I think that there is a sense of touching other people somehow, and wherever you find that is so I don't know, I just love the way that you grow up and what inspires you. And now you're doing these podcasts. So is that because you have to or because you want to or because other people want you to? It doesn't really matter, as long as you're filling a need that somebody feeling useful.

Speaker 1 00:28:16
Feeling useful. And you know what the silliest thing is? The morning connection that I have with people still through Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and just finding a quote that I like. Like today I use John Kabat zinn about, you are not what happened to you. That has already happened. The question is, what now? And I put it to a pretty picture that I've taken in the BC wilderness. But people comment on that and they relate or they share, and I go, you know what? That is still that heart connection. Sometimes it's a laugh, sometimes it's something to think about. Sometimes it's a reminder of Breast Health Month, breast cancer awareness. But it's still having that little teeny platform. And we all know social media can be a cesspool, but just to have that place, to still connect with people, and I am so grateful for that. And I don't care how old they are. I'm not trying to sell it. I just want that connection. I still want to feel like I'm part of their lives. And that may sound a little bit pathetic. I'm sure to some people it does, but I loved that. I loved being part of their families and feeling like they were a part of mine.

Speaker 3 00:29:19
Well, the Spice Girls. They are not around anymore. You need, like, a new bed.

Speaker 2 00:29:23
Oh, no, they are. No, they are. They're planning a reunion. Another one.

Speaker 1 00:29:28
Another one?

Speaker 3 00:29:29
Yeah. But they're like the stones. They're like, Ah, well, a little bit.

Speaker 2 00:29:33
Younger, but four podcasts? Aaron like, for shame. Four?

Speaker 1 00:29:39
I know. Well, two of them are paid. Two of them sponsors came to me and said, here's what we're doing. And so Rob produces them, and we have great teams on both of them. The third one is the sleep one. It's called Drift, and it's it's going gangbusters, and I'm really happy with that, but God, I'm running out of fairy tales to rewrite. There aren't many. Soon you get bears eating children and you go, oh, no, that's not going to be a good one. So, yeah, there's that one, and then the fourth one is this one I'm soon going to be doing with my friend, with Lisa Brandt.

Speaker 2 00:30:07

Speaker 1 00:30:08

Speaker 2 00:30:08

Speaker 1 00:30:10
So I don't know. Again, it's just what else can I do? My husband plays hockey three times a week. I have the grandkids as often as I'm able to, as often as I can. Love our time with them. And we want to travel, so fill the time. Fill the time, fill the time. Die. I don't know.

Speaker 3 00:30:33
I don't know. I still think I'm 35.

Speaker 1 00:30:35
Me, too. Wendy okay, here's the question. If you didn't know how old you are, how old are you? I am 42.

Speaker 2 00:30:42
I remember feeling really good about 42. 42 is like it's wise, but it's still sexy. Then I got cancer at 42, so to hell with that.

Speaker 1 00:30:53
Right? Oh, thanks, Mo.

Speaker 2 00:30:56
Yeah, you're welcome.

Speaker 3 00:30:58
I had my first annual 29th birthday party when I moved to Ottawa, and I thought that was really funny because it was so old being 29. So I think I stopped somewhere at 35. But I mean, that's a joke. I mean, you know all of the cliches you realize when you're older that they're true, that the youth is wasted on on the young. And if it's not, and if you don't think about death all the time because you're 30 or 35 or 40 or it's a good thing, there's a reason why youth is wasted on the young. You're not supposed to think heavy thoughts all the time. You're supposed to think that the world is your oyster, which is another cliche.

Speaker 2 00:31:34
I don't care about getting old. I just don't want to be decrepit.

Speaker 3 00:31:38
I just don't want to run out of time. I don't like the idea that there's less time left.

Speaker 2 00:31:44
Yeah. There's less runway. That's one of the things. If I were ten years or 20 years younger, I'd be looking for another full time paying gig, because you got to have that. But now I don't feel the need to thank God. I don't have to. I've saved enough money and my husband is younger and still working, but I worry about not being able to do the things that I want to do. I don't want to be sick, I don't want to be disabled. And that possibility or probability is still a long way away. Again, knock wood. But that's what I worry about. If you've been through what we've been through, all three of us, you know that life is a gift and being around is a privilege, and we don't all get to experience that. So I just want to be around as long as I can in the shape that I'm in or better.

Speaker 3 00:32:35
Or just upload yourself. Isn't that what they all do these days?

Speaker 2 00:32:39
Oh, can you imagine?

Speaker 3 00:32:45
Put it on a beta mac.

Speaker 1 00:32:46
I've got so much disk space left over. Oh, wait, there's no disks anymore. Damn it. It's killing me now, though, as we are all a very young and sexy 60, that we just no longer matter. And that was my whole thing about you guys said it so well, la far la plan.

Speaker 3 00:33:05
Yeah, I got an email from her this morning just saying because on our we're going to go weekly oh, my God, what have we done? Podcast, which just ran we talked about Lisa, and apparently well, not apparently, she listens. I ran into her and she said, I listen to your podcast all the time. And Maureen said hi. Lisa and she reached out to me this morning saying, I'll come on. Not going to come on right yet because she's got a couple of things going on, I think. But, yeah, it was a moment where I think a lot of people had to stop and think about I'm 30 or I'm 40 or I'm 50, but I'm afraid of growing older as a woman. Not just because I'm approaching death, but because men might get hotter and women don't necessarily in the eyes of the world, but I think we're still pretty hot. We just don't have much runway left.

Speaker 1 00:33:53
But what we think is immaterial because as I pointed out during that whole thing was they don't care about us anymore. They don't want us watching. Which is ridiculous because how many 25 year olds get their news from television? Not many.

Speaker 3 00:34:08
Yeah, but the seven year olds still think we're hot. So you got bright line.

Speaker 1 00:34:15
Absolutely. Are you kidding? I hang out with a 97 year old woman, took her to see Carmen at the opera last week for her birthday, and she calls Rob and I kids. So what you do, you find somebody in their eighty s or ninety s who calls you Kid and tells you, stop losing weight. You're losing too much weight. Okay, I love you more. It's all perspective. And your kids are always going to roll their eyes when you get the name of somebody wrong or mix up one of the Ryan's or Liam's or whatever. But, you know, we need to make the 30 year olds listen to the fact that yeah, we're here and we've got so much wisdom, but I guess it's always been that way, right? Put them out on an ice flow and say goodbye. I don't know.

Speaker 2 00:34:55
But to put her out on a night, put her on the ice flow.

Speaker 1 00:34:57
There's no ice flow.

Speaker 3 00:34:59
Yeah, that's what they all say. That's what my mother said. But in the end there was no ice flow. No, it's where's my wine?

Speaker 1 00:35:06
Oh, that's true. Thanks, Al Gore.

Speaker 2 00:35:10
Well, on that note, on that kind of hilarious but sort of fatalistic note, I'm just going to ask you one thing here, and Wendy may have more questions, but other than Lauren, obviously, is there anything that you would have changed here you are now living to us at the other end of the country. You're happy, you've got family, you're engaged. Is it working out the way that you hoped?

Speaker 1 00:35:34
Oh, that is a good question, which every interviewer loves to hear. I know that, and I'm not saying it to be slick. Yes, I married the man who on our first date, I almost literally felt a spark when our hands touched. We were engaged. Three weeks later, we're still married 35 years. We are very happy. We are in a beautiful home. I had a wonderful career. I continue to stay busy. What do I wish had turned out differently? I can't think of anything. I always chased that television carrot, but I know that if I had caught it, it would have killed me, either in stress or in surgeries or in fighting to try and stay young and relevant. So it's one of those things that sometimes when you pray, no is an answer to. And I think things just worked out the way that they had to and now I'll just do the best I'll do what John Kabatzin says, what are you going to do? And this is what I'm doing.

Speaker 3 00:36:31
I always loved working in television because you were with a team and there was some sort of performance element to it. But it was also you learned so much about the world and one of the biggest it's funny that you're saying that you aspired to television and maybe that never happened, but it's funny the way that people look at things, because one of the most insulting things that anyone ever said to me, and it was somebody that I respected him and I think respects me. I was offered a job in radio, and this person said, wow. She said, wow, they actually want you in radio? Like, people on television have no brains. Like, what are you saying to me? I thought it was so insulting. So I think there are a lot of people who think that people who survive in radio or in print are smarter than people on television. So put that in your pipe and smoke it for another cliche.

Speaker 2 00:37:22
I think so. I would go along with that.

Speaker 3 00:37:24
Oh, we'll screw you that's very insulting. And it wasn't even Maureen who said it the first time.

Speaker 2 00:37:34
I'll explain to you later what I meant.

Speaker 1 00:37:37
And so ends the Wendy and end and mo women of ill review. But you know what it is, and Maureen may be on this, too, Wendy, is that so many television personalities or celebrities tried to do radio and completely failed because they didn't know how to be real. They only knew how to present, but not to give the personal. And because of the facade, I think of Marie Osmond, they gave her a syndicated morning show that I was up for. It was a national thing, and it was between me and her, and she got it, and it didn't work. And I'm not happy about that for her, but I knew she couldn't because she had all these walls around her. And you were fortunate. Every person who had a camera or did your makeup or your lighting or whatever, they were just another level of protection for you. But on the radio, you are naked. And if you can do that, excellent. And I've no doubt you can, because you've done that on this podcast. But that is, I think, perhaps to be kind, what that person was getting to.

Speaker 3 00:38:35
Yeah, except that the first 20 out of the 30 or whatever years it was, there was no makeup, there was no lighting. It was just being a reporter. It was just running around. But I'm sorry, Maureen, what did you mean to say without.

Speaker 2 00:38:50
I was just yanking your chain, which is actually another hobby of mine. Aaron, it's been such a pleasure. Good luck with your podcasts. If you've got all sorts of people buying time, send them our way, too. And I'm so glad that you're happy. I really, really am. You deserve all the joy in the world.

Speaker 3 00:39:06
Yeah. Reclaiming joy.

Speaker 2 00:39:07

Speaker 1 00:39:08
Well, it's not without medication. I mean, I'm not doing this alone. Rob, he's my rock, and God bless him, he puts up and helps with so many situations, and there's a lot of people with patience around me, and I'm very lucky for that.

Speaker 2 00:39:26
Well, they're lucky, too. Give my love to Rob.

Speaker 3 00:39:30
So nice to finally meet you. I know it's not real, but it's a little closer, so yeah.

Speaker 1 00:39:35
No, Wendy, the pleasure is mine. And thank you so much for wanting to talk with me. I've got to go out and build a reputation now of ill repute. Just what the world needs, eh?

Speaker 2 00:39:47
It's easier than you think, honestly.

Speaker 1 00:39:50
Oh, it is. I'll work on it.

Speaker 2 00:39:53
Thank you, Erin.

Speaker 1 00:39:54
Thank you.

Speaker 2 00:39:57
Okay, what I meant what I meant to say was I've been in, you know, I've done television. I know you've got a closet full of Gemini Awards. I was nominated for one once.

Speaker 3 00:40:10
Sure you were.

Speaker 1 00:40:12
And I didn't win.

Speaker 2 00:40:13
This hour has 22 Minutes won. But anyway, getting back to people who think so many people think that they can do radio, especially people from television. But I've had other people, musicians. I remember once this quite famous Canadian musician was given her own radio show and we were interviewing her and she said, I can do radio. I've listened to radio.

Speaker 3 00:40:35
I love radio. Yeah, it's not easy. That's what I listened to because that's where all the smart people were. I was going to say R, but.

Speaker 2 00:40:42
Were not all of them. But it has a specific skill set.

Speaker 3 00:40:46
So now I'm arguing against my own argument.

Speaker 2 00:40:48
Just like a TV person.

Speaker 3 00:40:51
Yeah, there's smart people on TV too. Anyway, erin was lovely. It was so nice to get to finally kind of meet her, even though she's in the west coast, but not.

Speaker 2 00:41:01
Yeah, but that's how we meet people now. I mean, I love her and the pain that she's experienced is unfathomable. But I'm happy that she's happy that she's found happiness. And yeah, I wish her all the best. What else can I say?

Speaker 1 00:41:16
The women of Il repute with Wendy.

Speaker 2 00:41:19
Mesley and Maureen Holloway.

Speaker 1 00:41:20
Available on Apple podcasts spotify Google podcasts or@womenofilrepute.com produced and distributed by the Sound Off media company.