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Nov. 22, 2022

Lynsey Addario: Love and War

Why do they do it? It’s easy to have a theory of why war correspondents put their lives on the line. Are they dealing with trauma? Are they addicted to the adrenalin? Maybe. Maybe they just have big hearts. For more than 20 years, photographer Lynsey Addario has been one of very few women covering conflict around the globe. Afghanistan, Libya, Sudan and now Ukraine. For the New York Times, for National Geographic, often at tremendous risk to her own safety. But of course, we can’t resist. We ask her why. 

Photographer Lynsey Addario has been kidnapped twice. She puts her life on the line to show the world what war and conflict really look like, most recently in Ukraine. Her work is now being celebrated at the School for Visual Arts in NYC. She's won numerous awards, including a Pulitzer, and was even given a MacArthur genius grant. Our first official genius! We talk to her about still having to prove herself as a woman in the field, about love and war and everything in between. 

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Speaker 1 00:00:02
The women of Ill repute with your hosts. Wendy Mesley and Maureen Holloway. Wendy?

Speaker 2 00:00:08
Yeah. Hi.

Speaker 1 00:00:09
Hi. There are two kinds of people in the world.

Speaker 2 00:00:12
I proclaim, surely not.

Speaker 1 00:00:15
No. There are two kinds of people in the world. Those who believe there are two kinds of people people in the world and those who say, Surely not. And don't call me Shirley, but okay. This is, admittedly, a silly start to a serious episode with a real serious.

Speaker 2 00:00:27
Journalist, but you're the comedian, and I've sort of marketed myself as a very serious journalist. You're saying I'm not a serious no.

Speaker 1 00:00:34
No, you're very serious.

Speaker 2 00:00:36

Speaker 1 00:00:37
How many awards and accolades do you have? Like a credenza full of hardware. You could open a hardware store. But if I'm not mistaken, and with all due respect, you have never covered a war zone, you've never put your life on the line, you've never been shot at on Parliament Hill, not that you should, but it's a different kind of journalism.

Speaker 2 00:00:54
Yeah. So many of my colleagues went that path, and I never had the guts for the grit to do it. Or maybe I kind of need my special pillow. It's true. Sad, but true.

Speaker 1 00:01:09
That's okay. But back to the two kinds of people. There are those that they say run to danger and those who run away, and today's guest, for a number of reasons, runs towards it, and we're going to talk about that. I hope Lindsay Adario is well. She's a dream for this podcast for women of illegal. She's a photojournalist. She's covered the biggest conflicts and humanitarian crises of the past two decades afghanistan, Libya, Darfur, Yemen, Syria, Somalia. There's a lot of conflicts, and most recently Ukraine. And she has covered it close up in the center of conflict.

Speaker 2 00:01:43
Yeah, it's pretty amazing. I mean, the stuff from Ukraine recently just got I don't know. She's very, very special. You've seen her work everywhere. She's been working for the New York Times. National Geographic. Her photos, they're just I don't know, they're different. They're beautiful. They're also heartbreaking. She's won all kinds of awards. She's won Pulitzer. A MacArthur Fellowship, maybe. She's a genius. Two Emmy nominations. And she currently has this exhibition at the School of Visual Arts in New York, which kind of encapsulates a big part of her career.

Speaker 1 00:02:15
She's written a memoir called It's What I Do, which answers a lot of preliminary questions and also a stunning collection of photographs called Of Love and War.

Speaker 2 00:02:24
Yeah. I was hoping when I read the book, I was really hoping that she could just take pictures and not write, but unfortunately for me, she can write.

Speaker 1 00:02:32
She's a terrific writer.

Speaker 2 00:02:34
Yeah. And she's serious. She's been kidnapped. Not that this makes her special, but she has she's been kidnapped twice. She's been threatened. She was in a serious car crash. She's got, like, a plate in her shoulder. She's also a wife and a mother. A lot of stuff.

Speaker 1 00:02:56
So much to ask her in so little time, but we're so excited and admittedly awestruck to welcome Lindsay Adario.

Speaker 3 00:03:03

Speaker 1 00:03:04
Hi. Wendy's got her a special pillow, and we're just thrilled to have you here. And I just finished your book, and I couldn't sleep. And I wonder, writing the book, did it bring you back to I mean, you're still in the thick of it, but to be able to put it in perspective do you ever say to yourself, what the hell am I doing?

Speaker 3 00:03:24
Yeah, a lot. I would say in Libya, when I was faced down in the dirt with a gun to my head, sort of staring down the barrel of a kaloshnikov, begging for my life, I was saying, what the hell am I doing? I think there are many times where I'm saying, what the hell am I doing? I think it often happens when I'm very close to death or under fire. Those are sort of the moments. But I always have to answer that question for myself and say that I really believe in this work, and I think that photographs and good journalism can change the world. So, yeah, there's so much to talk.

Speaker 2 00:04:06
About, about why you risk it and is it worth the risk and all of that. I was really struck, I guess, going back to look at your photos after reading a piece that was written about Robert Kappa and how comparing your photographs to him. And I'm like, your message is so different. Like, I guess in the old days, maybe there was nobility in war. That's what he kind of reflected, that there was good and there was bad. But looking at your photos, it's so much about the bad and everybody's bad. I mean, is there a message in your stuff?

Speaker 3 00:04:36
I don't know. I mean, that article was a little complicated for me because I think you can't just choose sort of a selection of photographs that play into what you're trying to write. I mean, I think I definitely photograph more women's issues and a lot of the civilian casualties. I think that at that time, it was a lot of just frontline pictures. And Kappa, of course, was a huge inspiration for me and any other war photographer and sort of revered in our community. But I think, you know, there's nuance in every war. It's not good versus evil. I do think Ukraine, it's the clearest we've seen where we have a sovereign country that has been invaded by Russia and civilians are being deliberately targeted, and we're watching Russia now sort of decimate the infrastructure. And I think that we're seeing a lot of the good versus evil, but there's always nuance, and there's a lot of gray area in war as in life.

Speaker 1 00:05:37
Lindsey, when you hear about something when war was declared on Ukraine as your first instinct to say, I got to go.

Speaker 3 00:05:43
Well, I mean, actually, the New York Times sort of beat me to it in the case of the Ukraine war, because they got in touch with me, I think, in December, asking me if there is going to be a war in Ukraine, would you like to COVID it for us? And I hadn't covered a conflict for The New York Times in years because of various reasons, but I immediately said yes, but not thinking that there actually would be a war, like, I really didn't think that Russia would go in, and so I said yes. And then they were able to get military credentials and all the stuff that makes it essential to COVID a conflict. And then in February, in early February, they called me and said, okay, go. And I went on the 14 February, and ten days later, I was at the line of contact. I was in Eastern Ukraine and Dunbar and covering the war that had been going on already for eight years. And then Russia invaded on the 24th and so went immediately to Kiev. But I think I was ready to COVID it. I think it was historically a very important war to COVID I mean, it's Europe, and it's on everyone's doorstep. It's also a situation where you have Putin going into a sovereign country, and who's to say he'll stop at Ukraine and won't just keep going? So I think it was important on many levels.

Speaker 2 00:07:08
One of the things that there was that photo of that mother with the children who was she was a civilian. It was so obvious she was a civilian. And I think you've said, maybe I'm looking too deeply for a message in all of your photos, but in that one, I mean, you have said that you want to get beyond stereotypes, that you want to so basically with that photo, you proved that when the Russian forces say that they're not targeting civilians, they're targeting civilians. How important is that to you?

Speaker 3 00:07:38
Well, that was a situation that was there were many levels to that. I was actually in that attack. So I think, you know, I went to a known civilian evacuation route that morning where everybody knew, the Russians knew, the Ukrainians knew that that was a bridge in European to Kiev where civilians were evacuating for safety. It was women, children, injured elderly on that bridge. So that was a bridge that in the known sort of it should not be targeted. So I think I went there to COVID the civilians evacuating, and within minutes, Russian artillery started targeting a position off in the distance. I assumed that they were targeting a Ukrainian military position because they knew it was a civilian evacuation route. And within minutes, the next round came closer, and the third round landed next to us, literally distant between us and the family. So I witnessed the deliberate targeting. It wasn't speculation. It wasn't, oh, maybe they were in the wrong place at the wrong time. No, those rounds were bracketed onto a civilian evacuation route, and I witnessed the entire thing. I was sprayed with gravel. I mean, I was in that attack. And so I think that was the difference between when Putin says we're not targeting civilians. Well, that's just not true.

Speaker 1 00:09:05
What do you do with your fear, just from reading your book? What you do requires incredible focus and toughness, but you strike me as a very feeling person. So what do you do with it?

Speaker 3 00:09:18
Oh, I mean, god, I wish I wasn't so feeling I mean, I cry, I run, I get scared. I mean, I'm very, very human. I am not, like, robotic in these situations. I mean, there is I didn't realize that Andrew Duke Chuck, who is the Ukrainian journalist I've been covering the war alongside, he's been translating for me, and we've been working together. But he was rolling. I mean, he was actually shooting video of that entire attack. And you can hear me, I'm like, shi chi chi because I was terrified. And I also thought that this Ukrainian soldier that I had been photographing and that we had been kind of shielding me every time a round would come close, I thought he was killed in that attack because he sort of disappeared in a poof of dust when the round came in. But I think I have to acknowledge that fear. It's obviously very normal, but I have to figure out I have to process it and think of, why am I feeling this? Where is that coming from? Is it based on PTSD, you know, past trauma, or is it based on a reality that like, this is very dangerous and I have to figure out how to survive. So there's a lot of things that I'm processing in those moments.

Speaker 2 00:10:33
Many years ago, you was kind of famous, made massive headlines in North America. You and three others were kidnapped when you were in Libya. And reading your book, you talk about Anthony Shadid and how he had said at the time that, I'm never going to do this again. This is too much. And you said, people tend to get into scary situations, and they say, I'm going to get it. But you believed him. But he went back and he died.

Speaker 3 00:11:00
I mean, Anthony never said he wouldn't do it again. I think it was Steve Feral.

Speaker 2 00:11:04
Was it?

Speaker 3 00:11:05
Yeah. Anthony, me and Tyler were all sort of like, this is horrible, and we are putting our loved ones through horrific. We knew that we were causing people to suffer with our disappearance, but Anthony was never like, I'm not going to do this anymore, nor Tyler, the three of us. But Steve Ferrell was pretty resolute, and he actually kept his word. He did drop out of conflict journalism. So I think Anthony could have been any one of us, Tyler or me, and we have gone back and Anthony was killed, or he died in Syria. He wasn't killed. He had an asthma attack that led him to die. But Tyler and I have gone back repeatedly, and we've both had many close calls since then.

Speaker 2 00:11:55
How do you deal with that? Like, your husband is a journalist. Do you share these stories? Like, how do you how do you compartmentalize things?

Speaker 3 00:12:03
I mean, my husband yes, was a journalist for 16 years for Reuters. He very much knows what I do and understands the nature of this work, so he's incredibly supportive, but I think in the moment, I don't tell him how dangerous the things are doing. You know what I mean? I try to pretend like everything's fine, and then I hope he doesn't see a video of attack that I'm in, but then I do. I also don't expect the New York Times to run it on the home page with, like, my name.

Speaker 1 00:12:40
What about your son? I mean, that's one thing to protect your husband.

Speaker 3 00:12:44
Well, my children I have a three year old and a ten year old. The three year old has no idea. He's just for all he knows, the nanny is his mother, because, I mean, I basically haven't been home in a year. So I think the three year old is adorable and very happy, and the important thing for him is that he feels loved. But the ten year old is just Lucas, and he's just starting to realize what I do for a living. I remember when I came back from the first sort of six week Torah in Ukraine, and I went directly to school to pick him up, and his friends were like, oh, she's the mom who was kidnapped. Were you kidnapped again? And I was like, oh, God. So I'm like the mom who's been kidnapped. Lucas is he internalizes a lot, and so I try to sort of talk to him about where I've been and where I'm going, but not terrify him, you know, not tell him so much that he's scared every time I get on a plane. So I think I have to let him lead the way in terms of how much he wants to know right now. Because he's ten.

Speaker 1 00:13:59
Yeah, it's a great age too, because they're open to everything and haven't developed well, they will, but the attitude eventually comes.

Speaker 3 00:14:07
Oh, he's got attitude.

Speaker 1 00:14:11
Let's go back to your parents. Your parents were hairdressers. In a million years, would two hairdressers ever think that they would raise someone.

Speaker 2 00:14:19
To do what you do?

Speaker 3 00:14:21
I mean, poor them. We were raised in a really great, eccentric, open household where it was all about love and fun and tap into your creative talent and do what makes you happy. Don't worry about money. Money will come when you're doing what you love. And so we were not at all an intellectual family growing up. I think we had, like, just a set of encyclopedias in our house. I mean, we didn't get the newspaper. We didn't have any books, but it was all about kind of life and living life and loving the people around you and accepting people around you, and especially people who lived on kind of the margins of society. And so it was definitely not the sort of household that you think would produce a war photographer.

Speaker 1 00:15:15

Speaker 3 00:15:17
Definitely not.

Speaker 1 00:15:18
Are they still alive, both your parents?

Speaker 3 00:15:21
Yes. No one in my family ever dies. Really?

Speaker 1 00:15:26
That's cool.

Speaker 3 00:15:27
One grandmother just died at 107.

Speaker 1 00:15:30

Speaker 3 00:15:31
The other one died at 99. My dad just retired at 80, and my mom is still running around like she's 20 and she's 83. So, I mean, yeah, my family is definitely sort of lively.

Speaker 1 00:15:45
I would say keep that in mind when you're under fire. Just say that. We have a lot of lifespans in this family.

Speaker 3 00:15:52
We hope. To be fair, no one ran around the front lines of Ukraine.

Speaker 2 00:15:59
Well, it does sort of explain the invincibility of everything that you think you're going to live forever and also that you could just get pregnant. You could just, like, drop on at any time. That sounded fascinating that you wrote about. You didn't feel the biological clock ticking because it was just like that's. What my husband says is that he passed me in the hallway and I was pregnant. I said, it'll take years and I was 40, but work the deadline.

Speaker 3 00:16:25
Yes. First of all, in my profession, there are so few women, there are so few women that are mothers and there are much less married. So I think it's a profession that does not lend itself to home life, because we go we're away often, we're away for long stretches. There are a lot of men in my profession who have wives at home with children, but there are very few women with husbands at home raising the kids. And I was very lucky to marry my husband Paul, who is incredibly supportive and who is an amazing father and who basically raises the kids, you know. And so I think I just didn't expect that I would ever be able to have that life. I assumed I chose a path that would mean I could never have a family.

Speaker 2 00:17:15
I have a number of friends who are foreign correspondents who did have the grit and the guts to do versions of what you do, but I was like, some of them have been lucky, but a lot of them aren't. And I was really struck by what you just said, that whether you're in Baghdad or wherever, that everybody is sort of doing this very exciting job, but all the men have wives or steady girlfriends back at home waiting for them, and the women are just waiting, hoping that they're going to meet somebody who will be supportive. So I guess some things aren't changing. Like, when I grew up, it was Annabelle. She's like, probably a name for older people in Canada, but back then, that was it. There was no women, and now there's a lot. But it sounds like some things haven't changed.

Speaker 3 00:17:58
There are many women reporters, but there aren't that many war photographers. You know, there's heidi levine, paula bronstein, carol guzzi, nicole tung. I mean, I can kind of name them on one or two hands. And so there were no role models for me of mothers. When I got pregnant, I was terrified, you know, I was like, how am I going to like, my life's over, my career is over. How am I going to raise a child and be able to go do this work? And so because there were very few people to look up to. I mean, Heidi Levine had children, but very few people have kids.

Speaker 1 00:18:39
The women of ill repute. At the same token, you're very aware of being a woman, and this is relevant. I wouldn't normally go, you're five one or five, you're a smaller person. So being female and smaller in your book and your stories, you're very aware of not wanting to slow anyone down or not wanting to make your stature and your femaleness an impediment to anybody, which is not something the guys have.

Speaker 2 00:19:04
To worry about, right?

Speaker 3 00:19:05
No, I mean, I constantly, especially during the Iraq war and the Afghan war when I was doing a lot of military ambassadors with the US military and the Marines, and I still train at least an hour a day. And at that point I was training all the time because I never wanted to be that person who was like, I can't scale this wall. I can't do a seven hour patrol with flat jacket and all my camera gear. I always wanted to be able to keep up because that is part of my job. So I have to be physically fit. I'll be 49 next week and I'm going to be, you know, and I still am training all the time.

Speaker 2 00:19:46
So can you still do all that stuff? Can you, like, climb over the walls and do seven RX and no special pillow?

Speaker 3 00:19:54
Yeah, of course I can. Here's the thing. After I had my son Lucas, ten years ago, I had major back problems. I had three herniated disks. My back went out all the time. I was in a huge car accident in Pakistan in 2009 that I was thrown out of a car on a highway. So I don't think that help matters, but I think just the years of 20 years of doing this work and climbing walls and jumping out of blackhawks and doing all this stuff. So, yeah, it took a toll on my back. But weirdly, and this seems like an advertisement for Pilates, I started doing reformer pilates. I was doing working out all the time, but that exercise has kind of changed my life and made my core really strong and the ability my back goes out a lot less. Like, you know, it'll go out once a year as opposed to every three months. And so that's been a real game changer in terms of being able to go on assignment and not living in constant fear that I won't be able to walk one morning.

Speaker 1 00:20:55
Wendy just did her first Pilates class this morning. It's inspired now, right?

Speaker 3 00:21:01
It's incredible. No, I mean, the reformer on the machine is like it's incredible.

Speaker 1 00:21:08
We both want to know, because we're women, we want to know what's in your go bag. What do you have to have?

Speaker 2 00:21:13
Yeah. Do you still have one, like, on the side?

Speaker 3 00:21:15
Yeah, I mean, Ukraine is like the go bag is always at the door. I have coffee. I carry Starbucks, the Via packs, the instant packs, because it's just too complicated to use ground. I carry an immersion heater and a cup, so I can always make a cup of coffee if I have electricity. I carry protein bars, so those vary, but usually ones that are high in protein, low in sugar. Granola bars don't really do it for me because I get hungry like, an hour later. There are a few bottles of water. I carry medication, so I carry my back meds in case my back does go out. So that's like napraxin, paracetamol, ibuprofen. I carry Cipro, so an antibiotic in case I get injured, all sorts of painkiller, cold medicine, and then a change of clothes.

Speaker 2 00:22:06
One change of clothes.

Speaker 3 00:22:07
Well, in a go bag, like, if I'm under shelling and I have to run to a shelter. Yeah, I'll have usually just a change of clothes, a sweater, a warm jacket. Oh, my saline. I have contacts, which is super annoying.

Speaker 2 00:22:23
Yeah, it was weird when you got kidnapped and you were talking about getting a coffee headache.

Speaker 3 00:22:29
Of all the things I know. And I'm thinking about getting LASIK finally, because it's really stressful having to worry about, like, can I get saline? When I'm in the middle of a war zone?

Speaker 1 00:22:44
It does seem caught up. Of all the things I need. Sailing solutions.

Speaker 3 00:22:49
I know, it's ridiculous. And I always have my running shoes, so I can always work out.

Speaker 2 00:22:55
I just want to ask you about, I guess, you know, as a journalist and you're, like, a super journalist, but now we're not trusted. Nobody likes us. It's all this fake news, and nobody trusts anybody. There's no such thing as the truth, so don't even bother. I mean, that must be like a dagger to the heart to somebody who's actually put their life on the line to try and tell a story.

Speaker 3 00:23:17
I mean, luckily, the places you know, I don't work in America that much. I was surprised when I started working here a few years ago, and I've done a few assignments. That feeling of, like, fake news and don't trust journalists really persists here, I think, in Ukraine, and a lot of the I was in Somalia last week covering what will be declared likely as a famine for National Geographic. A lot of those places, people still really profoundly appreciate the work of journalists, and they really understand that journalists provide a window for the rest of the world on to their heartache. And so I think, luckily, I'm still working in places where journalists are respected and where our work is useful and seen as sort of the vehicle to telling people stories.

Speaker 2 00:24:10
So can you change that in the States?

Speaker 3 00:24:13
I don't know. I mean, when I was here, I was very surprised, and also I covered elections. I was very surprised about the anger and the hostility because I've been working abroad for 22 years, you know, so I really it's a different attitude, more or less. I mean, by and large, it's a different attitude toward journalists.

Speaker 1 00:24:33
I want to ask you about the art of what you do, the actual photography.

Speaker 2 00:24:38
Your photos.

Speaker 1 00:24:39
Your pictures are so beautiful and so beautifully lit and so poetic, and you're in the middle of the most heinous situation. Do you have a moment? Do you know, or do you just shooting, shooting, shooting, shooting? Or do you all of a sudden go, oh, my God, this is it? I've got it?

Speaker 3 00:24:56
I think, yes, to answer your question. In short, yes. I know when I'm photographing something, and I'm in a moment that is powerful, I think digital photography allows me to shoot too much. Like, I'll just keep shooting. Whereas when I started on film 25 years ago and I used to be in the dark room, and I was much more judicious about how much I shot when I stopped shooting. Now I just kind of keep shooting because you don't know if that amazing moment will evolve into another amazing moment. And so I generally, if security allows, I will just keep shooting. But I know, I mean, I feel it. I feel it everywhere when I'm shooting something that's, like, pretty incredible. And a lot of people we talked about the exhibition, or you said in your introduction, I have this mid career retrospective at the School of Visual Arts, and I have you know, there are about 150 works there. And the takeaway is sort of people are very confused because the images are very tough, but aesthetically, they have a beauty to them. And that was you know, that's something I try to do because I'm trying to bring people into the image. I'm trying to make a viewer stop in his or her tracks and ask questions and get engaged with the image. And I find that that's easier to do if the images have beautiful light or a composition that's compelling because then you'll ask questions.

Speaker 1 00:26:26
You recently brought Hillary Clinton around on a tour of the exhibition, which had to be odd and cool and weird because she was Secretary of State during much of this. So I'm wondering what her take was on that.

Speaker 3 00:26:41
I mean, it was amazing. She was so engaged and so focused and weirdly, had read my book and so was, like, reciting to me the backstories of some of the pictures, which was so surreal. She was amazing. And yes, she was Secretary of State. She was Secretary of State when I was kidnapped in Libya. Yeah. It was amazing for me to take her around and to look at how she responded and interacted with the photographs, because I think different people respond to different sections differently. And I was so worried about she's very busy and I didn't want to take too much time. And I kept trying to usher her through a section quickly and be like, oh, you don't need to see that. She was like, no, no. And she was like, Go back and look at every single photograph. And yeah, it was amazing.

Speaker 2 00:27:33
Is it weird to be fetted? I mean, a friend of mine, Anna Maria Tremonti, she was a political correspondent, and then she became a foreign correspondent. She's about 15 years older than you, and so she covered, like, the war in Bosnia and so on. And so many of the stories that you tell are similar to hers, including she just got engaged at 65, and when her husband Toby said, Will you marry me? She's like, really? Really? You want to marry me? You're now married happily, you got two kids. You're a freaking genius.

Speaker 3 00:28:06
I mean, you can ask my husband how happy he is. I think he sort of requests me. He's sort of like, Are you ever coming home?

Speaker 2 00:28:17
Yeah. Did you think you were going to change? Anyway, I just wonder whether it's weird to be FEDANT.

Speaker 3 00:28:22
You know, I am so hard on myself. I never feel fed it I am constantly just beating myself up for the fact that I'm not in Ukraine right now, that I'm not doing better work, that I missed butcher. It's constant. And so I don't really feel fetted. I feel like I feel appreciative that people are responding to the work and that they go and see it, and that yes, Hillary Clinton, that was incredible. And Katie Kirk was there. And Tina Brown. And I'm so honored because more than anything, I'm honored because I want people to engage with the stories, and especially people in positions of power who can actually do something for those people. But I never personally feel fetted. I feel like I'm constantly just, like, beating myself up for what I'm not doing.

Speaker 2 00:29:17
Constantly on the move. So where are you going next?

Speaker 3 00:29:20
I'm going back to Ukraine on Monday.

Speaker 1 00:29:23
Wow. Mid career. Keep that in mind. You said that this is a mid career retrospective. You're not even halfway done, I'm sure, and sadly may never well be done, because in a recent interview, I think it was the Vanity Fair piece, speaking of being fetted, where they asked you about war and you said you don't think it will ever be? We will never be without it.

Speaker 3 00:29:44
No, I don't. I think, sadly, it's human nature. And what's interesting, I think, is that as climate change gets worse, I think wars will get worse because I think there will be more and more conflict over resources and water and land and harvestable land. And so even in Somalia, you have a real influence of conflict and climate, and I think we will probably see that more and more as climate change gets worse.

Speaker 2 00:30:18
Yeah. Well, when you solve the journalism thing, if you could solve climate change while you're at it.

Speaker 1 00:30:26
Certainly can document it. That's not hard to do. Lindsay Adario, I can't tell you how honored I know you don't feel fetched, but we feel honored to have spoken to you. And how long is your exhibit on the sea?

Speaker 3 00:30:37
It was just extended to December 10, and it's Chelsea, so if you're any more, go.

Speaker 2 00:30:44
Well, Maureen is intimidated talking to authors. I'm, like, so intimidated talking to you. I just think that what you've done and what you're doing is amazing. And we had someone on a little while ago who sort of made fun of women for talking about the worklife balance thing all the time, which, of.

Speaker 1 00:31:01
Course, she's a lawyer.

Speaker 2 00:31:03
Yeah. So she's a lawyer. But there are other things in life, and men don't have to justify their balance all the time. So you're managing to make a real difference and to have a family and to have love, and there's no perfect balance.

Speaker 3 00:31:17
Oh, there's no perfect balance. Everything I attribute to my husband, because without him, I couldn't have any of that, and I probably wouldn't have had a family because I just wouldn't have thought it would be possible. So it's really him who should take the credit for all that.

Speaker 2 00:31:35
Well, we'll interview him next when we do menoville repute.

Speaker 1 00:31:40
Lindsay, please take this with respect. Stay safe, please, as best as you can.

Speaker 2 00:31:45
And lovely to talk to you. Thank you. Bye, Lindsay.

Speaker 1 00:31:48
Thanks for your time.

Speaker 3 00:31:49
Thank you. Take care.

Speaker 1 00:31:54

Speaker 2 00:31:54
Yeah. I was a little tongue tied.

Speaker 3 00:31:56
I was like, oh, there's mindsey.

Speaker 2 00:31:58
There's mindsey. Oh, my goodness. Oh, my goodness.

Speaker 1 00:32:01
I know. I like that.

Speaker 2 00:32:05
Yeah. And she's so beautiful, and she's so lovely. She seems so together. And how can you be that together? I did want to ask her because Anna Maria went through some stuff. She's just done a podcast about being, like, beaten almost to a pulp.

Speaker 1 00:32:22
I know. I didn't know she was engaged, too. That's adorable.

Speaker 2 00:32:25
Yeah. At an advanced age. But, I mean, she talks in her podcast about how she became a foreign correspondent partly because she was able to deal with the conflict in her life by dealing with other people who had been through conflict. And Anderson Cooper.

Speaker 1 00:32:39
Yes, I thought of him, too.

Speaker 3 00:32:41

Speaker 2 00:32:41
So he lost his brother when he was ten and his dad when he was 21, and he said that he became a foreign correspondent at the beginning because he wanted to be with other people who had suffered grief. So I wanted to ask her about that, but she just seems I don't know, she seems so together and she's from a family that's kind of together.

Speaker 1 00:32:58
Yeah, she comes from a pretty normal place. Her parents were hairdressers. Her father came out and ran off with his boyfriend. I mean, there are certain things that are not, you know, orthodox, but on the whole, yeah, very creative. Lucy Goosey kind of the fact that she had no newspapers, I mean, wasn't politically aware and we didn't point this out in the interview, she has no formal training, she doesn't have a degree. She picked up a camera and she started as a stringer and it was literally another photographer who showed her how to use a zoom lens properly. And so she is truly self made in every way. But you can see why, obviously the guts are there, but the innate intelligence and perhaps mostly the compassion that she brings to her photography. I meant to ask her, and I may ask her agent, if we can put some of her photographs up on our website, because, as they say, a picture tells a thousand words. So we'll try to put that up there.

Speaker 2 00:33:50
Oh, that'd be good. I was hoping she wouldn't be able to write this double triple threat thing, but it was a beautiful book, too, and photography.

Speaker 1 00:34:01
So she could be a foreign correspondent, not just visually, but anyway, she can do whatever she can do, but I hope that her three year old gets to know her because she's well worth knowing. So that's Lindsay Adario. And on to the next. The women of Ill Repute with Wendy Mesley and Maureen Holloway. Available on Apple, Podcasts, Spotify, Google or@womenofilrepus.com.

Speaker 3 00:34:25
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